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Communication channel for the group?

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Hi all!

At the hack night last night I had a good question:

	What's up with the IRC channel?

To be honest: Not much.

IIRC the irc.mozilla.org server is scheduled to be shut down, so the channel
cannot survive as it is.

In the past there's never really been a need for a chat-communication channel,
because the number of attendees were quite few and what the group needed mostly
was an announcement platform (which the website, mailing list and Rust community
calendar serve nicely).

But now that the group has grown a little, it might make sense to establish an
official IRC-like channel. My question is: which one?

IRC channels seem to - for some reason - have fallen out of favour, but that
doesn't mean we cannot have an IRC channel. We could set up #rust-cph on
freenode for example, or some other server.

I'm open to suggestions. I'm aware that Discord, Zulip and gitter are currently
in use in the Rust community, with Discord being more or less the "official"
one [1].

What do you think?

-- Thomas

PS. I'll pay closer attention to #rust-cph on irc.mozilla.org, so you should be
able to catch me there.

[1] https://www.rust-lang.org/community#contribute-talk
Kaare Rasmussen
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Hi Thomas

FWIW, I'd suggest to just open #rust-cph on freenode. All current users 
should easily move along.

Isn't discord mostly (only) for gamers?

/kaare

> Hi all!
>
> At the hack night last night I had a good question:
>
> 	What's up with the IRC channel?
>
> To be honest: Not much.
>
> IIRC the irc.mozilla.org server is scheduled to be shut down, so the channel
> cannot survive as it is.
>
> In the past there's never really been a need for a chat-communication channel,
> because the number of attendees were quite few and what the group needed mostly
> was an announcement platform (which the website, mailing list and Rust community
> calendar serve nicely).
>
> But now that the group has grown a little, it might make sense to establish an
> official IRC-like channel. My question is: which one?
>
> IRC channels seem to - for some reason - have fallen out of favour, but that
> doesn't mean we cannot have an IRC channel. We could set up #rust-cph on
> freenode for example, or some other server.
>
> I'm open to suggestions. I'm aware that Discord, Zulip and gitter are currently
> in use in the Rust community, with Discord being more or less the "official"
> one [1].
>
> What do you think?
>
> -- Thomas
>
> PS. I'll pay closer attention to #rust-cph on irc.mozilla.org, so you should be
> able to catch me there.
>
> [1] https://www.rust-lang.org/community#contribute-talk
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> FWIW, I'd suggest to just open #rust-cph on freenode. All current users
> should easily move along.

Maybe that is the easiest first step.

> Isn't discord mostly (only) for gamers?

Yeah, but it's actually being used by quite a few of the Rust working groups
(core, community, ops and lang IIRC, among others).

I'm not a fan of forcing people in this group to create user accounts with
something like Discord just to participate in our community. But if everyone
already have accounts with Discord, then that's not a real barrier.

One problem with IRC is that it's quite ephemeral in itself, so if you just log
in, you cannot go digging through the history of what's happened, but this
problem is solved by Discord, Slack, Zulip, gitter and others.

-- Thomas
Alice Ryhl
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At least, I know that I'm not going to be using an IRC channel — I've 
always found IRC painful to use.

I'm not sure what is best or if a channel is even needed, but I'm open 
to most chat systems as long as it's not too painful to set up.

Discord is definitely not just for gamers, even if it is marketed as 
such. I've used it for a long time for various chats, I just don't use 
the voice chat functionality, as I don't play games.

Alice

On 2019-09-27 09:57, Thomas Bracht Laumann Jespersen wrote:
>> FWIW, I'd suggest to just open #rust-cph on freenode. All current users
>> should easily move along.
> 
> Maybe that is the easiest first step.
> 
>> Isn't discord mostly (only) for gamers?
> 
> Yeah, but it's actually being used by quite a few of the Rust working groups
> (core, community, ops and lang IIRC, among others).
> 
> I'm not a fan of forcing people in this group to create user accounts with
> something like Discord just to participate in our community. But if everyone
> already have accounts with Discord, then that's not a real barrier.
> 
> One problem with IRC is that it's quite ephemeral in itself, so if you just log
> in, you cannot go digging through the history of what's happened, but this
> problem is solved by Discord, Slack, Zulip, gitter and others.
> 
> -- Thomas
> 
Martin
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Not to be contraprodictive nor personal, but I think my standpoint might be 
orthogonal to Alice's who i deeply respect.

I assume using a web browser is how all the so called "modern" chat services 
are used? Please prove me wrong. When it comes to irc, I just tried using 
http://www.mibbit.com/ to join our existing #cph-rust and found it seemingly 
trivial. Yet I don't know that or other web clients would actually work for 
Alice or others possibly wishing for it.

For me though, using a conventional web browser for chat is too resource 
intensive. Something using <100MiB of RAM or so, and similar disk, seems 
more reasonable to run in a virtual machine dedicated for chat.

A year back or so, I did need to use slack for professional reasons. That 
required a fully blown separate aws instance and quite a bit of maintenance 
for me to access it with a convenient interface. Yet I would not pay for the 
run time nor do the maintenance when lacking a customer case.

Please let's share our knowledge and standpoints to find something working 
for everyone.
-- 
/Martin

Alice Ryhl @ 2019-09-27 (Friday), 16:04 (+0200)
>At least, I know that I'm not going to be using an IRC channel — I've 
>always found IRC painful to use.
>
>I'm not sure what is best or if a channel is even needed, but I'm open 
>to most chat systems as long as it's not too painful to set up.
>
>Discord is definitely not just for gamers, even if it is marketed as 
>such. I've used it for a long time for various chats, I just don't use 
>the voice chat functionality, as I don't play games.
>
>Alice
>
>On 2019-09-27 09:57, Thomas Bracht Laumann Jespersen wrote:
>>>FWIW, I'd suggest to just open #rust-cph on freenode. All current users
>>>should easily move along.
>>
>>Maybe that is the easiest first step.
>>
>>>Isn't discord mostly (only) for gamers?
>>
>>Yeah, but it's actually being used by quite a few of the Rust working groups
>>(core, community, ops and lang IIRC, among others).
>>
>>I'm not a fan of forcing people in this group to create user accounts with
>>something like Discord just to participate in our community. But if everyone
>>already have accounts with Discord, then that's not a real barrier.
>>
>>One problem with IRC is that it's quite ephemeral in itself, so if you just log
>>in, you cannot go digging through the history of what's happened, but this
>>problem is solved by Discord, Slack, Zulip, gitter and others.
>>
>>-- Thomas
>>
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Hello,

I would vote for either an IRC channel, or Matrix room given that:

a) servers exist at our disposal, so infrastructure is guaranteed
b) is an open protocol (multiple clients available)
c) users need not register

IRC does have the characteristic of lacking history. I do not see this
as necessarily bad, and there are some solutions (e.g.:
https://freenode.logbot.info/).

As for webclients, in addition to mibbit.com, there is also
https://thelounge.chat/ and https://kiwiirc.com/.

As for Matrix, it trades c) with access to history, and a
reference client (https://about.riot.im/) that is available in all
platforms.

/ts
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Hi all,

> a) servers exist at our disposal, so infrastructure is guaranteed
> b) is an open protocol (multiple clients available)
> c) users need not register
>
> IRC does have the characteristic of lacking history. I do not see this
> as necessarily bad, and there are some solutions (e.g.:
> https://freenode.logbot.info/).
>
> As for webclients, in addition to mibbit.com, there is also
> https://thelounge.chat/ and https://kiwiirc.com/.
>
> As for Matrix, it trades c) with access to history, and a
> reference client (https://about.riot.im/) that is available in all
> platforms.

I personally would prefer something like IRC and Matrix as well. I think I'll
set up a matrix account and see where that goes.

In the end, the goal is to provide _somewhere_ to chat if it's needed. My
thinking is that as the group grows, it would make sense to have a chat for our
little community.

-- Thomas
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Hi all,

I registered an account on matrix.org, and set up a room (as it's called):

    https://matrix.to/#/!bDgdIvuOLBhsstppWv:matrix.org?via=matrix.org

Note that you need to create an account on some home server to join the room, but it should be available just by a URL.

Please note: I've never used matrix.org before, so I might need some help with settings and stuff :-)

If you use riot.im:

    https://riot.im/app/#/room/#rust-cph:matrix.org

Looking forward to seeing you all there!
-- Thomas
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