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Multiple Directories?

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Hi again =)

Since I was considering renaming other files outside of my notes
directory with the denote format, I was wondering: Is it possible to
have to declare multiple notes directories?

Currently, I have: (not sure how to format this in mu4e)

---
(setq denote-dired-directories
      (list denote-directory
            (thread-last denote-directory (expand-file-name "attachments"))
            (expand-file-name "~/Documents/sync/org/")))
---

Is it possible to add another directory?

I just don't want to throw everything I have in my denote directory but
I'd like a few key directories in my ~/Documents to be able to have
special notes via the denote menu.


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Sent from MU4E in Emacs,
Because I'm becoming a NEWBIE at this!
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> From: Summer Emacs <summeremacs@gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 09:26:47 +0200
>
> Hi again =)

Good day!

> Since I was considering renaming other files outside of my notes
> directory with the denote format, I was wondering: Is it possible to
> have to declare multiple notes directories?

What is the purpose of those other directories?  Do you want to store
"notes" in them, or just other files (e.g. mp3).

The doc string of 'denote-directory' mentions of the possibility of
maintaining separate note "silos".  I can explain the technicalities, if
you want that.

> Currently, I have: (not sure how to format this in mu4e)
>
> ---
> (setq denote-dired-directories
>       (list denote-directory
>             (thread-last denote-directory (expand-file-name "attachments"))
>             (expand-file-name "~/Documents/sync/org/")))
> ---
>
> Is it possible to add another directory?

The 'denote-dired-directories' is for fontification purposes
("fontification" basically means extra colours).  Assuming this is what
you are looking for, you just add more elements to the list (included
extra space for didactic purposes):

    (setq denote-dired-directories
          (list

           denote-directory
           (thread-last denote-directory (expand-file-name "attachments"))
           (expand-file-name "~/Documents/sync/org/")

           ;; My extra directories

           (thread-last denote-directory (expand-file-name "subdir-of-denote-directory"))
           (expand-file-name "~/Documents/path/to/some/directory")

           ))

> I just don't want to throw everything I have in my denote directory but
> I'd like a few key directories in my ~/Documents to be able to have
> special notes via the denote menu.

Maybe I am misreading this, but it seems you want the aforementioned
silos, not just fontification.  Please help me understand this better.

All the best,
Prot

-- 
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Protesilaos Stavrou @ 2022-07-10 10:43 :

> Good day!

Hi Prot =)
Thank you for your answer.

> What is the purpose of those other directories?  Do you want to store
> "notes" in them, or just other files (e.g. mp3).

I definitely want to store notes in two or three different places after
having thought about it and I'll explain why:

I want to store my personal notes in the directory which is currently my
denote directory. It has notes and journal notes in there and it's
perfect for personal use.

However, since your system is so good, I wish to make and store denote
notes in one or two other directories outside of that one for all of my
work notes and files, which I don't want mixed up with my personal notes.

> The doc string of 'denote-directory' mentions of the possibility of
> maintaining separate note "silos".  I can explain the technicalities, if
> you want that.
>
So yes, please explain how to make different silos.

> The 'denote-dired-directories' is for fontification purposes
> ("fontification" basically means extra colours).  Assuming this is what
> you are looking for, you just add more elements to the list (included
> extra space for didactic purposes):
>
>     (setq denote-dired-directories
>           (list
>
>            denote-directory
>            (thread-last denote-directory (expand-file-name "attachments"))
>            (expand-file-name "~/Documents/sync/org/")
>
>            ;; My extra directories
>
>            (thread-last denote-directory (expand-file-name "subdir-of-denote-directory"))
>            (expand-file-name "~/Documents/path/to/some/directory")
>
>            ))
>

>
> Maybe I am misreading this, but it seems you want the aforementioned
> silos, not just fontification.  Please help me understand this better.

I'll continue down here what I was writing above: Since I want a
personal notes directory to be kept away from my work files, using
different "silos" would be ideal, I think?

I'm a personal assistant so I have to keep a lot of notes and
records. So I think one silo could be for quick notes which I take on
the fly in meetings, and then another directory could be for work notes
which are finished products and for the record, basically. Like
finisheds projects.

With these different silos, I can keep my personal space separate from
my work one and divide that into two so it's not overflowing with rough
drafts and quick notes on the fly.

So if there is a way to do this with silos (I think that I understand
the concept somewhat? But I don't know the code), that would be really
great.

Thank you again. =)

> All the best,
> Prot


-- 
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Because I'm becoming a NEWBIE at this!
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> From: Summer Emacs <summeremacs@gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 10:14:58 +0200
>
>
> Protesilaos Stavrou @ 2022-07-10 10:43 :
>
>> Good day!
>
> Hi Prot =)
> Thank you for your answer.

You're welcome!

>> What is the purpose of those other directories?  Do you want to store
>> "notes" in them, or just other files (e.g. mp3).
>
> I definitely want to store notes in two or three different places after
> having thought about it and I'll explain why:
>
> [... 42 lines elided]
>
> I'm a personal assistant so I have to keep a lot of notes and
> records. So I think one silo could be for quick notes which I take on
> the fly in meetings, and then another directory could be for work notes
> which are finished products and for the record, basically. Like
> finisheds projects.
>
> With these different silos, I can keep my personal space separate from
> my work one and divide that into two so it's not overflowing with rough
> drafts and quick notes on the fly.
>
> [... 9 lines elided]

Yes, you need the silos.  I have prepared the following entry, which I
will add to the manual later (I first need to finalise some unrelated
tasks with Denote's code).  Please read it and let me know if it makes
sense or if it needs some more work.

    * Create silos of notes

    The user option ~denote-directory~ accepts a value that represents the
    path to a directory, such as =~/Documents/notes=.  Normally, the user
    will have one place where they store their notes, in which case this
    arrangement will suffice.

    There is, however, the possibility to maintain separate directories of
    notes.  By "separate", we mean that they do not communicate with each
    other.  Think of the scenario where one set of notes if for private use
    and another if for an employer.  They should not share the same keywords
    and will never link to each other.  We call these separate directories
    "silos".

    To create silos, the user must specify a local variable at the root of
    the desired directory.  This is done by creating a =.dir-locals.el=
    file, with the following contents:

    #+begin_src emacs-lisp
    ;;; Directory Local Variables
    ;;; For more information see (info "(emacs) Directory Variables")

    ((nil . ((denote-directory . default-directory))))
    #+end_src

    When inside the directory with this =.dir-locals.el=, all Denote
    commands/functions for note creation, linking, the inference of
    available keywords, et cetera will use the silo as their point of
    reference.  They will not read the global value of ~denote-directory~.
    The global value of ~denote-directory~ is read everywhere else except
    the silos.

    In concrete terms, this is a representation of the directory structures
    (notice the =.dir-locals.el= in the silos):

    #+begin_src emacs-lisp
    ;; This is the global value
    ;; (setq denote-directory "~/Documents/notes")
    ~/Documents/notes
    |-- 20210303T120534--this-is-a-test__journal_philosophy.txt
    |-- 20220303T120534--another-sample__journal_testing.md
    `-- 20220620T181255--the-third-test__keyword.org

    ;; A silo with notes for the employer
    ~/different/path/to/notes-for-employer
    |-- .dir-locals.el
    |-- 20210303T120534--this-is-a-test__conference.txt
    |-- 20220303T120534--another-sample__meeting.md
    `-- 20220620T181255--the-third-test__keyword.org

    ;; Another silo with notes for my volunteering
    ~/different/path/to/notes-for-volunteering
    |-- .dir-locals.el
    |-- 20210303T120534--this-is-a-test__activism.txt
    |-- 20220303T120534--another-sample__teambuilding.md
    `-- 20220620T181255--the-third-test__keyword.org
    #+end_src


-- 
Protesilaos Stavrou
https://protesilaos.com
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Protesilaos Stavrou @ 2022-07-10 11:59 :

---snip---
> Yes, you need the silos.  I have prepared the following entry, which I
> will add to the manual later (I first need to finalise some unrelated
> tasks with Denote's code).  Please read it and let me know if it makes
> sense or if it needs some more work.

I've reviewed it and included questions below (and thank you very much
for this):

>     * Create silos of notes
>
>     The user option ~denote-directory~ accepts a value that represents the
>     path to a directory, such as =~/Documents/notes=.  Normally, the user
>     will have one place where they store their notes, in which case this
>     arrangement will suffice.
>
>     There is, however, the possibility to maintain separate directories of
>     notes.  By "separate", we mean that they do not communicate with each
>     other.  Think of the scenario where one set of notes if for private use
>     and another if for an employer.  They should not share the same keywords
>     and will never link to each other.  We call these separate directories
>     "silos".
>
>     To create silos, the user must specify a local variable at the root of
>     the desired directory.  This is done by creating a =.dir-locals.el=
>     file, with the following contents:
>
>     #+begin_src emacs-lisp
>     ;;; Directory Local Variables
>     ;;; For more information see (info "(emacs) Directory Variables")
>
>     ((nil . ((denote-directory . default-directory))))
>     #+end_src

I put this in my .dir.locals.el? That's what I'm guessing. =)

>
>     When inside the directory with this =.dir-locals.el=, all Denote
>     commands/functions for note creation, linking, the inference of
>     available keywords, et cetera will use the silo as their point of
>     reference.  They will not read the global value of ~denote-directory~.
>     The global value of ~denote-directory~ is read everywhere else except
>     the silos.
>
>     In concrete terms, this is a representation of the directory structures
>     (notice the =.dir-locals.el= in the silos):
>
>     #+begin_src emacs-lisp
>     ;; This is the global value
>     ;; (setq denote-directory "~/Documents/notes")
>     ~/Documents/notes
>     |-- 20210303T120534--this-is-a-test__journal_philosophy.txt
>     |-- 20220303T120534--another-sample__journal_testing.md
>     `-- 20220620T181255--the-third-test__keyword.org

This I understand, I think:

(setq denote-directory "~/Documents/sync/org/notes") would be my default
directory?

>     ;; A silo with notes for the employer
>     ~/different/path/to/notes-for-employer
>     |-- .dir-locals.el
>     |-- 20210303T120534--this-is-a-test__conference.txt
>     |-- 20220303T120534--another-sample__meeting.md
>     `-- 20220620T181255--the-third-test__keyword.org
>
>     ;; Another silo with notes for my volunteering
>     ~/different/path/to/notes-for-volunteering
>     |-- .dir-locals.el
>     |-- 20210303T120534--this-is-a-test__activism.txt
>     |-- 20220303T120534--another-sample__teambuilding.md
>     `-- 20220620T181255--the-third-test__keyword.org
>     #+end_src
This is the part I'm also confused on. Is it:
(setq .dir-locals.el)?
or just: .dir-locals.el with no setq?
IE:
~/Documents/sync/org/work/
.dir-locals.el
?
I know that doesn't look right so that's why I'm confused about the
actual code.

In the .dir-locals.el file, what exactly do I write to include 3
different directories? Also, what is the difference between
denote-directory and default-directory? Is denote-directory being set as
the default-directory?

I'm a little confused about the terms and I apologize for that.

The description of it, however, is pretty much spot on. I *would* like
to be able to link between /work/ and /drafts/ directory but I guess
that can be a matter for another discussion. And I'm really for asking
so many newbie questions. There's still a lot to learn for me in basic
stuff. =)


-- 
Summer,
Sent from MU4E in Emacs,
Because I'm becoming a NEWBIE at this!
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Hey Summer,

> This I understand, I think:
> 
> (setq denote-directory "~/Documents/sync/org/notes") would be my default
> directory?

Yes.  This will set your global `denote-directory' and thus will set the 
behavior of all `denote-' commands, unless the variable has been changed 
locally, for example via directory- or buffer-local variables.  The 
silos use those directory-local variables.

> This is the part I'm also confused on. Is it:
> (setq .dir-locals.el)?
> or just: .dir-locals.el with no setq?

It's just `.dir-locals.el'.  The whole facility is explained within the 
Emacs manual, `C-h r', section "Directory Variables".  You can press `m' 
within the manual's overview to quickly jump to the "Directory 
Variables", i.e. `C-h r m Directory Variables RET'.

> I know that doesn't look right so that's why I'm confused about the
> actual code.

The code is but a list of major-mode and variables; the special case 
`nil' indicates that the variables should be set for any mode.  The 
aforementioned manual page contains some examples how those lists can 
look like.

> In the .dir-locals.el file, what exactly do I write to include 3
> different directories? Also, what is the difference between
> denote-directory and default-directory?

The `default-directoy' is the "default directory of the current buffer". 
  If the buffer is backed by a file, then the `default-directory' is 
that file's parent directory.  With that in mind, the 
`default-directory' variable within a `.dir-locals.el' file will be set 
to the directory of the file itself, so

```
((nil . ((denote-directory . default-directory))))
```

acts as

```
((nil . ((denote-directory . "/path/to/the/current/files/directory/"))))
```

This will set the denote-directory accordingly.

Hope that helps,
   Benjamin
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> From: Summer Emacs <summeremacs@gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 11:34:03 +0200
>
>>     * Create silos of notes
>>
>>     The user option ~denote-directory~ accepts a value that represents the
>>     path to a directory, such as =~/Documents/notes=.  Normally, the user
>>     will have one place where they store their notes, in which case this
>>     arrangement will suffice.
>>
>>     There is, however, the possibility to maintain separate directories of
>>     notes.  By "separate", we mean that they do not communicate with each
>>     other.  Think of the scenario where one set of notes if for private use
>>     and another if for an employer.  They should not share the same keywords
>>     and will never link to each other.  We call these separate directories
>>     "silos".
>>
>>     To create silos, the user must specify a local variable at the root of
>>     the desired directory.  This is done by creating a =.dir-locals.el=
>>     file, with the following contents:
>>
>>     #+begin_src emacs-lisp
>>     ;;; Directory Local Variables
>>     ;;; For more information see (info "(emacs) Directory Variables")
>>
>>     ((nil . ((denote-directory . default-directory))))
>>     #+end_src
>
> I put this in my .dir.locals.el? That's what I'm guessing. =)

Yes, you put the lines between the #+begin_src and #+end_src inside a
file whose name is:

    .dir-locals.el

>>     When inside the directory with this =.dir-locals.el=, all Denote
>>     commands/functions for note creation, linking, the inference of
>>     available keywords, et cetera will use the silo as their point of
>>     reference.  They will not read the global value of ~denote-directory~.
>>     The global value of ~denote-directory~ is read everywhere else except
>>     the silos.
>>
>>     In concrete terms, this is a representation of the directory structures
>>     (notice the =.dir-locals.el= in the silos):
>>
>>     #+begin_src emacs-lisp
>>     ;; This is the global value
>>     ;; (setq denote-directory "~/Documents/notes")
>>     ~/Documents/notes
>>     |-- 20210303T120534--this-is-a-test__journal_philosophy.txt
>>     |-- 20220303T120534--another-sample__journal_testing.md
>>     `-- 20220620T181255--the-third-test__keyword.org
>
> This I understand, I think:
>
> (setq denote-directory "~/Documents/sync/org/notes") would be my default
> directory?

Correct.  It does not need a .dir-locals-el

>>     ;; A silo with notes for the employer
>>     ~/different/path/to/notes-for-employer
>>     |-- .dir-locals.el
>>     |-- 20210303T120534--this-is-a-test__conference.txt
>>     |-- 20220303T120534--another-sample__meeting.md
>>     `-- 20220620T181255--the-third-test__keyword.org
>>
>>     ;; Another silo with notes for my volunteering
>>     ~/different/path/to/notes-for-volunteering
>>     |-- .dir-locals.el
>>     |-- 20210303T120534--this-is-a-test__activism.txt
>>     |-- 20220303T120534--another-sample__teambuilding.md
>>     `-- 20220620T181255--the-third-test__keyword.org
>>     #+end_src
> This is the part I'm also confused on. Is it:
> (setq .dir-locals.el)?
> or just: .dir-locals.el with no setq?
> IE:
> ~/Documents/sync/org/work/
> .dir-locals.el
> ?
> I know that doesn't look right so that's why I'm confused about the
> actual code.

No, you do not need setq here.  The .dir-locals.el is a file that you
write inside the directory.  The contents of that file essentially do
this:

    (setq-local denote-directory "path/to/this/silo")

Notice the 'setq-local'.  Does that make sense?

> In the .dir-locals.el file, what exactly do I write to include 3
> different directories? Also, what is the difference between
> denote-directory and default-directory? Is denote-directory being set as
> the default-directory?

For 3 different silos, you will write 3 different .dir-locals.el: one
per silo.  Do not worry about what the 'default-directory' means here.
It is just a safe symbol for us to know that the current directory is a
silo.

> I'm a little confused about the terms and I apologize for that.

No worries!

> The description of it, however, is pretty much spot on. I *would* like
> to be able to link between /work/ and /drafts/ directory but I guess
> that can be a matter for another discussion. And I'm really for asking
> so many newbie questions. There's still a lot to learn for me in basic
> stuff. =)

Again: no problem, no stress.  The purpose of this thread is to
understand what is going on.  Without asking, we do not learn.  The
reason I had not documented this before is because it is a bit more
advanced.

-- 
Protesilaos Stavrou
https://protesilaos.com
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Protesilaos Stavrou @ 2022-07-10 13:09 :


> Yes, you put the lines between the #+begin_src and #+end_src inside a
> file whose name is:
>
>     .dir-locals.el

---snip---
> Correct.  It does not need a .dir-locals-el

---snip---
> No, you do not need setq here.  The .dir-locals.el is a file that you
> write inside the directory.  The contents of that file essentially do
> this:
>
>     (setq-local denote-directory "path/to/this/silo")
>
> Notice the 'setq-local'.  Does that make sense?

---snip---
>
> For 3 different silos, you will write 3 different .dir-locals.el: one
> per silo.  Do not worry about what the 'default-directory' means here.
> It is just a safe symbol for us to know that the current directory is a
> silo.
>

I think I understand now! Okay, so let me see here:

In each notes directory (notes, work, drafts), I place a .dir-locals.el
file and write in it:

(setq-local denote-directory "~/Documents/sync/org/notes/") - personal notes
(setq-local denote-directory "~/Documents/sync/org/work/") - work notes
(setq-local denote-directory "~/Documents/sync/org/drafts/") - draft
notes

Each file only has one line corresponding to the directory that it is
inside.

When I use dired with C-x C-j, and navigate to that directory (notes,
work, or drafts), it will read that file and list the notes according to
the denote format.

I do not need to put any new defining code into my config.org file?


> No worries!


> Again: no problem, no stress.  The purpose of this thread is to
> understand what is going on.  Without asking, we do not learn.  The
> reason I had not documented this before is because it is a bit more
> advanced.

It does sound advanced to me but I'm still a newbie. I'm sure a lot of
people on here will have figured out what you meant. Please let me know
if I understood it correctly.

Also, if it is possible to link notes between drafts and work, that
would be great. But if it isn't, then it's not a huge problem as I
rarely would ever do that anyway. It's more an "in case it ever happens"
sort of thing. I was thinking, to make things simpler, to simply put the
drafts directory inside of my work directory. Maybe that might enable
linking between files? Please let me know in any case and thank you
again.


-- 
Summer,
Sent from MU4E in Emacs,
Because I'm becoming a NEWBIE at this!
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> From: Summer Emacs <summeremacs@gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 12:12:08 +0200
>
> I think I understand now! Okay, so let me see here:
>
> In each notes directory (notes, work, drafts), I place a .dir-locals.el
> file and write in it:
>
> (setq-local denote-directory "~/Documents/sync/org/notes/") - personal notes
> (setq-local denote-directory "~/Documents/sync/org/work/") - work notes
> (setq-local denote-directory "~/Documents/sync/org/drafts/") - draft
> notes

Yes, in each directory you write a .dir-locals.el.  But you do not
include what you wrote there.  Only include this line:

((nil . ((denote-directory . default-directory))))

> I do not need to put any new defining code into my config.org file?

No.  The code for your Emacs configuration is not related to this.

>> Again: no problem, no stress.  The purpose of this thread is to
>> understand what is going on.  Without asking, we do not learn.  The
>> reason I had not documented this before is because it is a bit more
>> advanced.
>
> It does sound advanced to me but I'm still a newbie. I'm sure a lot of
> people on here will have figured out what you meant. Please let me know
> if I understood it correctly.

You are almost there.

> Also, if it is possible to link notes between drafts and work, that
> would be great. But if it isn't, then it's not a huge problem as I
> rarely would ever do that anyway. It's more an "in case it ever happens"
> sort of thing. I was thinking, to make things simpler, to simply put the
> drafts directory inside of my work directory. Maybe that might enable
> linking between files? Please let me know in any case and thank you
> again.

It is not possible to create such links between silos.  If you link
between them, then they are not silos anymore.

If you want links though, you can simply forget about what we have
covered thus far and just create regular subdirectories for the
'denote-directory'.

When you want to create a new note for a specific subdirectory, you use
the command 'denote-subdirectory'.  It asks you to select a
subdirectory, and then it prompts for a title and keywords.

That command is also documented here (you can check the rest of the
section on creating notes, if you need more ideas):
<https://protesilaos.com/emacs/denote#h:588c1f96-ca01-4c2c-be7a-ca6359c9465b>.

-- 
Protesilaos Stavrou
https://protesilaos.com
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Protesilaos Stavrou @ 2022-07-10 14:04 :


> Yes, in each directory you write a .dir-locals.el.  But you do not
> include what you wrote there.  Only include this line:
>
> ((nil . ((denote-directory . default-directory))))

Done.

> No.  The code for your Emacs configuration is not related to this.

Perfect. =)

> You are almost there.


> It is not possible to create such links between silos.  If you link
> between them, then they are not silos anymore.

> If you want links though, you can simply forget about what we have
> covered thus far and just create regular subdirectories for the
> 'denote-directory'.

> When you want to create a new note for a specific subdirectory, you use
> the command 'denote-subdirectory'.  It asks you to select a
> subdirectory, and then it prompts for a title and keywords.
>
> That command is also documented here (you can check the rest of the
> section on creating notes, if you need more ideas):
> <https://protesilaos.com/emacs/denote#h:588c1f96-ca01-4c2c-be7a-ca6359c9465b>.

It works! Just as you said. Now my work and personal are separate and I
am using subdirectories notes creation for my drafts in my work. This is
*perfect*.

Thank you for everything. =)


-- 
Summer,
Sent from MU4E in Emacs,
Because I'm becoming a NEWBIE at this!
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> From: Summer Emacs <summeremacs@gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 13:11:57 +0200
>
> It works! Just as you said. Now my work and personal are separate and I
> am using subdirectories notes creation for my drafts in my work. This is
> *perfect*.

Well done!

> Thank you for everything. =)

You are welcome!

-- 
Protesilaos Stavrou
https://protesilaos.com
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