Hi Protesilaos,
Thank you for the wonderful modus-themes package. I'd like to share
some feedback about the highlight colors in light-variation of modus:
specifically, I find them too "dark" or "muted".
I can't quite put my fingers on it, but basically, in modus-vivendi,
the highlight colors (yellow, pink, green, etc.) jump out right away,
whereas I find the colors make the highlighted text harder to read. I
think the reason is the highlighting colors are dark, so they downplay
highlighted text instead of drawing attention to them.
I'm aware that this is just my own personal experience, but figured I
might put this out to the mailing list to see if others have
suggestions or feel similarly. Unfortunately, I don't have any
concrete color suggestions either: only that the modus-vivendi ones
are really great.
Looking forward to hearing you and others thoughts - thanks again for
modus-themes!
Cheers,
Kevin
> From: Kevin Li <kli6891@gmail.com>> Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2022 23:54:52 -0500>> Hi Protesilaos,
Hello Kevin,
> Thank you for the wonderful modus-themes package.
You are welcome!
> I'd like to share some feedback about the highlight colors in> light-variation of modus: specifically, I find them too "dark" or> "muted".
You are right: they are. This is because they must contrast well with a
white foreground. Normally, our coloured backgrounds contrast with the
main foreground (black for modus-operandi), which allows them to stand
out clearly, but here we are applying an inversion of the colours. The
main background (white) is used as the colour of the highlighted text
(and the inverse for modus-vivendi).
The reason we do this inversion is to prevent hl-line-mode from
overriding the background, thus rendering the highlight invisible.
The problem, then, is that we cannot have a true yellow combined with
white: it is an inaccessible combination. Same for a vivid green or a
cyan.
Perhaps we can tweak the colour values, though this is a robust
constraint.
Do you feel the same for all the colours? Or maybe is it for
'hi-yellow' and 'hi-salmon' specifically? I think those are the worst
in this regard.
All the best,
Protesilaos (or simply "Prot")
--
Protesilaos Stavrou
https://protesilaos.com
On Sun, Oct 2, 2022 at 12:33 AM Protesilaos Stavrou
<info@protesilaos.com> wrote:
>> > From: Kevin Li <kli6891@gmail.com>> > Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2022 23:54:52 -0500> >> > Hi Protesilaos,>> Hello Kevin,>> > Thank you for the wonderful modus-themes package.>> You are welcome!>> > I'd like to share some feedback about the highlight colors in> > light-variation of modus: specifically, I find them too "dark" or> > "muted".>> You are right: they are. This is because they must contrast well with a> white foreground. Normally, our coloured backgrounds contrast with the> main foreground (black for modus-operandi), which allows them to stand> out clearly, but here we are applying an inversion of the colours. The> main background (white) is used as the colour of the highlighted text> (and the inverse for modus-vivendi).>> The reason we do this inversion is to prevent hl-line-mode from> overriding the background, thus rendering the highlight invisible.>> The problem, then, is that we cannot have a true yellow combined with> white: it is an inaccessible combination. Same for a vivid green or a> cyan.
Understood, this makes sense! The default theme uses yellow-on-white
and it looks fine to me, but now I see it could be straining.
> Perhaps we can tweak the colour values, though this is a robust> constraint.>> Do you feel the same for all the colours? Or maybe is it for> 'hi-yellow' and 'hi-salmon' specifically? I think those are the worst> in this regard.
Thanks Prot, I think the tweaking the colors would be great. I feel
roughly the same towards all colors, but agree that salmon and yellow
are the most severe offenders.
See the following screenshots
* modus-operandi - https://imgz.org/i9ZtGHoJ-1280.png
Here, all the highlights are clearly distinct and visible.
* modus-vivendi - https://imgz.org/iDJDTAGU-1280.png
Yellow and salmon are not easily distinguishable, and I think all the
colors could use some tweaking.
* default-theme - https://imgz.org/i6Ggza8i-1280.png
Generally fine: the colors jump out and are distinguishable. Though it
defaults to bolding and changing the text for more colors (I think
modus is superior in this regard).
What do you think?
Cheers,
Kevin
> All the best,> Protesilaos (or simply "Prot")>> --> Protesilaos Stavrou> https://protesilaos.com
> From: Kevin Li <kli6891@gmail.com>> Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2022 10:00:59 -0500> [... 29 lines elided]>> The problem, then, is that we cannot have a true yellow combined with>> white: it is an inaccessible combination. Same for a vivid green or a>> cyan.>> Understood, this makes sense! The default theme uses yellow-on-white> and it looks fine to me, but now I see it could be straining.
In your screenshot of the default theme, the yellow is combined with
black. That is fine.
At any rate, we can have something more colourful than the current
values. I will need to introduce an exception here and specify colour
values directly, because the normal variables for coloured backgrounds
do not work for this edge case (due the inversion I mentioned before).
>> Perhaps we can tweak the colour values, though this is a robust>> constraint.>>>> Do you feel the same for all the colours? Or maybe is it for>> 'hi-yellow' and 'hi-salmon' specifically? I think those are the worst>> in this regard.>> Thanks Prot, I think the tweaking the colors would be great. I feel> roughly the same towards all colors, but agree that salmon and yellow> are the most severe offenders.>> See the following screenshots>> * modus-operandi - https://imgz.org/i9ZtGHoJ-1280.png> Here, all the highlights are clearly distinct and visible.>> * modus-vivendi - https://imgz.org/iDJDTAGU-1280.png> Yellow and salmon are not easily distinguishable, and I think all the> colors could use some tweaking.>> * default-theme - https://imgz.org/i6Ggza8i-1280.png> Generally fine: the colors jump out and are distinguishable. Though it> defaults to bolding and changing the text for more colors (I think> modus is superior in this regard).>> What do you think?
I think modus-operandi needs to be brightened up. I will then adapt
modus-vivendi accordingly. This will require bespoke colours, as the
ones used now are intented for foreground use (i.e. text): they are not
optimal as backgrounds.
In the source code, there is this notice:
;; HACK 2022-06-23: The :inverse-video prevents hl-line-mode from
;; overriding the background. Such an override really defeats the
;; purpose of setting those highlights.
I will be going to bed soon, so expect an update tomorrow morning.
--
Protesilaos Stavrou
https://protesilaos.com