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copyright of colors from the modus theme

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Hi Protesilaos,

I've been considering using the colors from the modus themes on my
website.

Since you've released the modus themes for Emacs under a GPLv3
license, I was wondering if using only the values of the hex colors
from the modus themes would require me to release the source code of
my website under a GPLv3 license as well. I don't intend to use the
modus themes to create derivative Emacs themes.

Thanks,
takeda
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> From: takeda <patch@sent.as>
> Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 02:29:42 +0530
>
> Hi Protesilaos,

Hello takeda!

> I've been considering using the colors from the modus themes on my
> website.
>
> Since you've released the modus themes for Emacs under a GPLv3
> license, I was wondering if using only the values of the hex colors
> from the modus themes would require me to release the source code of
> my website under a GPLv3 license as well. I don't intend to use the
> modus themes to create derivative Emacs themes.

I am not sure what the technical requirement is here.  Are colours or
combinations thereof without the application copyrightable?  They
probably are, but still...

* * *

I, Protesilaos Stavrou, author and maintainer of the modus-themes,
hereby declare that the names and hexadecimal colour values stored in
the variables modus-themes-operandi-colors, modus-themes-vivendi-colors
as found in the file modus-themes.el can be used to style personal
websites without a requirement to release the source code of the
website.

* * *

Is this okay?

All the best,
Protesilaos (or simply "Prot")

-- 
Protesilaos Stavrou
https://protesilaos.com
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> From: Protesilaos Stavrou <info@protesilaos.com>
> To: takeda <patch@sent.as>, ~protesilaos/modus-themes@lists.sr.ht
> Subject: Re: copyright of colors from the modus theme
> Date: Wednesday, May 04, 2022 9:06 AM
> 
> > From: takeda <patch@sent.as>
> > Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 02:29:42 +0530
> >
> > Hi Protesilaos,
> 
> Hello takeda!
> 
> > I've been considering using the colors from the modus themes on my
> > website.
> >
> > Since you've released the modus themes for Emacs under a GPLv3
> > license, I was wondering if using only the values of the hex colors
> > from the modus themes would require me to release the source code of
> > my website under a GPLv3 license as well. I don't intend to use the
> > modus themes to create derivative Emacs themes.
> 
> I am not sure what the technical requirement is here.  Are colours or
> combinations thereof without the application copyrightable?  They
> probably are, but still...

Although I'm not a lawyer but considering that 

- those colors are part of the modus-themes Emacs package itself, and
- those colors aren't available in any other standalone repository, and
- there isn't any mention of any specific part of the modus-themes
  Emacs package being released under a different license on the
  modus-themes git repository,

those colors would probably be considered available for usage under
the terms of GPLv3 as well, the license mentioned in the COPYING[^1]
file in the modus-themes git repository[^2].

> * * *
> 
> I, Protesilaos Stavrou, author and maintainer of the modus-themes,
> hereby declare that the names and hexadecimal colour values stored in
> the variables modus-themes-operandi-colors, modus-themes-vivendi-colors
> as found in the file modus-themes.el can be used to style personal
> websites without a requirement to release the source code of the
> website.
> 
> * * *
> 
> Is this okay?

I think it would be better to include a formal version of this notice
in the README.md files of modus-themes and the tempus-themes[^3] git
repositories so that other people aren't confused or potentially
violate the modus-themes and tempus-themes license unintentionally or
intentionally if they decide to use the colors from these themes. For
example, the foot terminal[^4] ships with GPLv3 licensed tempus theme
colors in its git repository although the foot terminal itself is
licensed under the MIT license.

The 0BSD[^5] and the MIT[^6] licenses are short and permissive and can
be used to license the colors and their hexadecimal values. The public
domain equivalent CC0-1.0[^7] license would work as well.

Here's a suggestion for the text that can be added to the README.md
file -

* * *

The modus-themes Emacs package is released under the GPLv3 license.
Please read the COPYING file for more details.

The names of the colors and the hexadecimal color values in
modus-themes are released under the MIT license. Please read the
COPYING_COLORS file for more details.

* * *

Alternatively, the modus-themes and the tempus-themes git repositories
can be dual licensed under both GPLv3 and a permissive license, such
as the MIT license.

Thanks,
takeda

[^1]: https://git.sr.ht/~protesilaos/modus-themes/tree/main/item/COPYING
[^2]: https://git.sr.ht/~protesilaos/modus-themes
[^3]: https://gitlab.com/protesilaos/tempus-themes
[^4]: https://codeberg.org/dnkl/foot
[^5]: https://spdx.org/licenses/0BSD.html
[^6]: https://spdx.org/licenses/MIT.html
[^7]: https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/legalcode.txt
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> From: takeda <patch@sent.as>
> Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 20:58:57 +0530
>
>> I am not sure what the technical requirement is here.  Are colours or
>> combinations thereof without the application copyrightable?  They
>> probably are, but still...
>
> Although I'm not a lawyer but considering that 
>
> - those colors are part of the modus-themes Emacs package itself, and
> - those colors aren't available in any other standalone repository, and
> - there isn't any mention of any specific part of the modus-themes
>   Emacs package being released under a different license on the
>   modus-themes git repository,
>
> those colors would probably be considered available for usage under
> the terms of GPLv3 as well, the license mentioned in the COPYING[^1]
> file in the modus-themes git repository[^2].

This sounds correct.

>> * * *
>> 
>> I, Protesilaos Stavrou, author and maintainer of the modus-themes,
>> hereby declare that the names and hexadecimal colour values stored in
>> the variables modus-themes-operandi-colors, modus-themes-vivendi-colors
>> as found in the file modus-themes.el can be used to style personal
>> websites without a requirement to release the source code of the
>> website.
>> 
>> * * *
>> 
>> Is this okay?
>
> I think it would be better to include a formal version of this notice
> in the README.md files of modus-themes and the tempus-themes[^3] git
> repositories so that other people aren't confused or potentially
> violate the modus-themes and tempus-themes license unintentionally or
> intentionally if they decide to use the colors from these themes. For
> example, the foot terminal[^4] ships with GPLv3 licensed tempus theme
> colors in its git repository although the foot terminal itself is
> licensed under the MIT license.
>
> The 0BSD[^5] and the MIT[^6] licenses are short and permissive and can
> be used to license the colors and their hexadecimal values. The public
> domain equivalent CC0-1.0[^7] license would work as well.
>
> Here's a suggestion for the text that can be added to the README.md
> file -
>
> * * *
>
> The modus-themes Emacs package is released under the GPLv3 license.
> Please read the COPYING file for more details.
>
> The names of the colors and the hexadecimal color values in
> modus-themes are released under the MIT license. Please read the
> COPYING_COLORS file for more details.
>
> * * *
>
> Alternatively, the modus-themes and the tempus-themes git repositories
> can be dual licensed under both GPLv3 and a permissive license, such
> as the MIT license.

The dual licensing might be tricky because the modus-themes are part of
Emacs.  They must have the same license as Emacs itself (it is a GNU
project after all).  I need to consult with a specialist or at least ask
the folks on the emacs-devel mailing list if it is possible to dual
licence them.  What I do with this will apply to the tempus-themes just
to keep things consistent and easier for me to maintain.

If you have any resources I could check, please let me know.

As for the case of footterm+tempus-themes, my understanding is that they
are allowed to do that as the "Expat License", as GNU calls it, is
compatible with the GPL: <https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/License:Expat>.
More resources: <https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html>.  Or is
this wrong?

-- 
Protesilaos Stavrou
https://protesilaos.com
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> From: Protesilaos Stavrou <info@protesilaos.com>
> Date: Thu, 05 May 2022 07:02:55 +0300
>
> The dual licensing might be tricky because the modus-themes are part of
> Emacs.  They must have the same license as Emacs itself (it is a GNU
> project after all).  I need to consult with a specialist or at least ask
> the folks on the emacs-devel mailing list if it is possible to dual
> licence them.  What I do with this will apply to the tempus-themes just
> to keep things consistent and easier for me to maintain.

Just to note that I posted on emacs-devel:
<https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2022-05/msg00152.html>.

-- 
Protesilaos Stavrou
https://protesilaos.com
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> From: Protesilaos Stavrou <info@protesilaos.com>
> To: takeda <patch@sent.as>, ~protesilaos/modus-themes@lists.sr.ht
> Subject: Re: copyright of colors from the modus theme
> Date: Thursday, May 05, 2022 9:32 AM
> 
> > I think it would be better to include a formal version of this notice
> > in the README.md files of modus-themes and the tempus-themes[^3] git
> > repositories so that other people aren't confused or potentially
> > violate the modus-themes and tempus-themes license unintentionally or
> > intentionally if they decide to use the colors from these themes. For
> > example, the foot terminal[^4] ships with GPLv3 licensed tempus theme
> > colors in its git repository although the foot terminal itself is
> > licensed under the MIT license.
> >
> > The 0BSD[^5] and the MIT[^6] licenses are short and permissive and can
> > be used to license the colors and their hexadecimal values. The public
> > domain equivalent CC0-1.0[^7] license would work as well.
> >
> > Here's a suggestion for the text that can be added to the README.md
> > file -
> >
> > * * *
> >
> > The modus-themes Emacs package is released under the GPLv3 license.
> > Please read the COPYING file for more details.
> >
> > The names of the colors and the hexadecimal color values in
> > modus-themes are released under the MIT license. Please read the
> > COPYING_COLORS file for more details.
> >
> > * * *
> >
> > Alternatively, the modus-themes and the tempus-themes git repositories
> > can be dual licensed under both GPLv3 and a permissive license, such
> > as the MIT license.
> 
> The dual licensing might be tricky because the modus-themes are part of
> Emacs.  They must have the same license as Emacs itself (it is a GNU
> project after all).

Maybe I'm being pedantic but I don't think any plugins for Emacs
*must* have the same license as Emacs, unless those plugins are
distributed with the Emacs source code itself. It's just that the
Emacs ecosystem leans towards assigning GPLv3 for all things related
to Emacs. In addition, I'm not sure if modus-themes and tempus-themes
are part of the GNU project because you've not assigned FSF as the
copyright owners of these projects, unlike projects such as Org
Mode[^1], GCC, GDB etc.

However, it doesn't look like assigning FSF the copyright to a project
is necessary[^2] for a project to call itself a GNU project but in
such cases, I'm not sure how or why a project can choose to call
itself a GNU project at all. This paragraph is my subjective opinion
though and can be ignored.

> I need to consult with a specialist or at least ask
> the folks on the emacs-devel mailing list if it is possible to dual
> licence them.  What I do with this will apply to the tempus-themes just
> to keep things consistent and easier for me to maintain.

Please note that I presented dual licensing merely as a possible
alternative, not as the primary suggestion or a recommendation. In my
opinion, the best course of action would be to specify that the colors
and the **numeric representation of the colors in any form or manner**
are licensed under a different license from the license of the
modus-theme package itself, which is GPLv3 licensed. If you're looking
for real world examples, here's the footer of a web page from
orgmode.org website -

https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contribute.html

* * *

Documentation from the orgmode.org/worg/ website (either in its HTML
format or in its Org format) is licensed under the GNU Free
Documentation License version 1.3 or later. The code examples and
css stylesheets are licensed under the GNU General Public License v3
or later.

* * *

> As for the case of footterm+tempus-themes, my understanding is that they
> are allowed to do that as the "Expat License", as GNU calls it, is
> compatible with the GPL: <https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/License:Expat>.
> More resources: <https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html>.  Or is
> this wrong?

No, they cannot use potentially GPLv3 licensed code (tempus-themes
colors) and release a derivative (foot terminal) under the MIT/Expat
license without violating GPLv3. You *can* use MIT/Expat licensed code
and release a derivative under GPLv3. You *cannot* use GPLv3 licensed
code and release a derivative under MIT/Expat.

[^1]: https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contribute.html#copyright
[^2]: https://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain/html_node/Copyright-Papers.html
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> From: takeda <patch@sent.as>
> Date: Fri, 06 May 2022 03:11:18 +0530
>
>> The dual licensing might be tricky because the modus-themes are part of
>> Emacs.  They must have the same license as Emacs itself (it is a GNU
>> project after all).
>
> Maybe I'm being pedantic but I don't think any plugins for Emacs
> *must* have the same license as Emacs, unless those plugins are
> distributed with the Emacs source code itself. It's just that the
> Emacs ecosystem leans towards assigning GPLv3 for all things related
> to Emacs. In addition, I'm not sure if modus-themes and tempus-themes
> are part of the GNU project because you've not assigned FSF as the
> copyright owners of these projects, unlike projects such as Org
> Mode[^1], GCC, GDB etc.
>
> However, it doesn't look like assigning FSF the copyright to a project
> is necessary[^2] for a project to call itself a GNU project but in
> such cases, I'm not sure how or why a project can choose to call
> itself a GNU project at all. This paragraph is my subjective opinion
> though and can be ignored.

In general this is true.  Though the modus-themes are literally part of
Emacs since the summer of 2020.  You can find them in the source code.
They are just maintained independent of emacs.git, just like Org.

Also, all my Emacs packages have the FSF as their copyright holder.  I
have assigned copyright to the FSF and the packages are distributed via
the official GNU ELPA archive.

I am not including the tempus-themes project in this, as it is not
related to Emacs.

>> I need to consult with a specialist or at least ask
>> the folks on the emacs-devel mailing list if it is possible to dual
>> licence them.  What I do with this will apply to the tempus-themes just
>> to keep things consistent and easier for me to maintain.
>
> Please note that I presented dual licensing merely as a possible
> alternative, not as the primary suggestion or a recommendation.

Thanks for clarifying!

> In my opinion, the best course of action would be to specify that the
> colors and the **numeric representation of the colors in any form or
> manner** are licensed under a different license from the license of
> the modus-theme package itself, which is GPLv3 licensed. If you're
> looking for real world examples, here's the footer of a web page from
> orgmode.org website -
>
> https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contribute.html
>
> * * *
>
> Documentation from the orgmode.org/worg/ website (either in its HTML
> format or in its Org format) is licensed under the GNU Free
> Documentation License version 1.3 or later. The code examples and
> css stylesheets are licensed under the GNU General Public License v3
> or later.

Yes, this is the idea.  Though the colours have been devised for the
express purpose of their application, not as a standalone colour scheme.

I am waiting for further feedback from emacs-devel.  Then we'll see how
to proceed.

>> As for the case of footterm+tempus-themes, my understanding is that they
>> are allowed to do that as the "Expat License", as GNU calls it, is
>> compatible with the GPL: <https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/License:Expat>.
>> More resources: <https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html>.  Or is
>> this wrong?
>
> No, they cannot use potentially GPLv3 licensed code (tempus-themes
> colors) and release a derivative (foot terminal) under the MIT/Expat
> license without violating GPLv3. You *can* use MIT/Expat licensed code
> and release a derivative under GPLv3. You *cannot* use GPLv3 licensed
> code and release a derivative under MIT/Expat.

Okay.

-- 
Protesilaos Stavrou
https://protesilaos.com
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> From: Protesilaos Stavrou <info@protesilaos.com>
> Date: Fri, 06 May 2022 06:16:39 +0300
>
> I am waiting for further feedback from emacs-devel.  Then we'll see how
> to proceed.

Hello again!

The folks on emacs-devel basically confirmed that I can put the colours
in the public domain.  It does not have a negative effect on Emacs.

The announcement on my blog:
<https://protesilaos.com/codelog/2022-05-10-modus-themes-palette-cc0/>.

The page from where to copy the colours freely:
<https://protesilaos.com/emacs/modus-themes-colors>.

I will eventually do the same for the tempus-themes, though I first want
to migrate them to SourceHut and add all the relevant links from my
website.  It will take a while.  I also have some other plans for the
project ;)

-- 
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https://protesilaos.com
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> From: Protesilaos Stavrou <info@protesilaos.com>
> To: takeda <patch@sent.as>, ~protesilaos/modus-themes@lists.sr.ht
> Subject: Re: copyright of colors from the modus theme
> Date: Tuesday, May 10, 2022 10:04 AM

> The folks on emacs-devel basically confirmed that I can put the colours
> in the public domain.  It does not have a negative effect on Emacs.
>
> The announcement on my blog:
> <https://protesilaos.com/codelog/2022-05-10-modus-themes-palette-cc0/>.
>
> The page from where to copy the colours freely:
> <https://protesilaos.com/emacs/modus-themes-colors>.

That's good to hear. Thanks!

I'd like to mention that if you're ever in a similar situation in the
future where you may want to license parts of your work under a
different license than GPL, you can do so without negatively impacting
Emacs or the GNU project as long as the license you choose is
compatible with the GPL license version that you've chosen.

For example, the CC0 license is expressely stated[^1] as being
compatible with the GNU GPL license and is encouraged for non-software
work if public domain dedication is desired.

For software work, GNU recommends using the Apache 2.0 license if a
permissive license is desired. Although the Apache 2.0 license is
compatible with GPLv3, it is NOT compatible with GPLv2. In such cases,
the MIT/Expat license might be preferable. In either case, both the
Apache 2.0 and the MIT/Expat license are compatible with GPLv3 and
software under these licenses can be consumed by GNU projects without
any issues (but not vice versa, if you recall one of my previous
emails).

> I will eventually do the same for the tempus-themes, though I first want
> to migrate them to SourceHut and add all the relevant links from my
> website.  It will take a while.  I also have some other plans for the
> project ;)

Sounds interesting! Thanks!

I read your codelog about the modus-theme colors and came across this
line

> If I were to design a colour scheme, I would make different decisions.

Would you like to elaborate a bit on this? I've actually wanted to
create my own light colorscheme with a light grey background,
something close to `#E0E0E0`, but it's hard to find colors that have
enough *luminance* and contrast at the same time when embedded on
light grey colors. If we could mathematically measure luminance and
contrast and generate colors that meet a specified criteria against a
specific background, that might help in coming up with custom
colorschemes that comply with WCAG 2 and perhaps even the draft WCAG 3
APCA guidelines.

[^1]: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#CC0
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> From: takeda <patch@sent.as>
> Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 21:25:49 +0530
>
> I read your codelog about the modus-theme colors and came across this
> line
>
>> If I were to design a colour scheme, I would make different decisions.
>
> Would you like to elaborate a bit on this?

I draw a distinction between a "colour scheme" and a "theme", which
comes down to its scope.  I explain what I mean here:
<https://protesilaos.com/emacs/modus-themes#h:a956dbd3-8fd2-4f5d-8b01-5f881268cf2b>.

Or evaluate:

    (info "(modus-themes) Are these color schemes?")

> I've actually wanted to create my own light colorscheme with a light
> grey background, something close to `#E0E0E0`, but it's hard to find
> colors that have enough *luminance* and contrast at the same time when
> embedded on light grey colors. If we could mathematically measure
> luminance and contrast and generate colors that meet a specified
> criteria against a specific background, that might help in coming up
> with custom colorschemes that comply with WCAG 2 and perhaps even the
> draft WCAG 3 APCA guidelines.

The WCAG 3 will have to wait for now.  I want it to become official
before I consider it.

If you want to quickly test colours against each other, you can try an
Org table (or orgtbl-mode) and use 'modus-themes-contrast' to get the
contrast ratio.

Here is a sample:

    (defalias 'Λ 'modus-themes-contrast)

    |         |         | #E0E0E0 | #FFFFFF |
    |---------+---------+---------+---------|
    | red     | #a60000 |    6.07 |    8.01 |
    | green   | #005e00 |    6.12 |    8.07 |
    | yellow  | #813e00 |    6.07 |    8.01 |
    | blue    | #0031a9 |    7.91 |   10.44 |
    | magenta | #721045 |    8.48 |   11.20 |
    | cyan    | #00538b |    6.09 |    8.05 |
    #+TBLFM: $3='(Λ $2 @1$3);%.2f :: $4='(Λ $2 @1$4);%.2f

I have tables like this one in the various blog posts I have written
about the modus-themes, including the one on colour theory that I
mentioned in my last post.

[ NOTE: most colours in the modus-themes have a >= 7:1 contrast against
  bg-alt, not only bg-main. ]

Though a grey background will indeed make things difficult for you: it
is probably the worst background for variants of green, yellow, cyan
(and still not optimal for the rest).

-- 
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https://protesilaos.com
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> From: Protesilaos Stavrou <info@protesilaos.com>
> To: takeda <patch@sent.as>, ~protesilaos/modus-themes@lists.sr.ht
> Subject: Re: copyright of colors from the modus theme
> Date: Wednesday, May 11, 2022 12:50 PM

> I draw a distinction between a "colour scheme" and a "theme", which
> comes down to its scope.  I explain what I mean here:
> <https://protesilaos.com/emacs/modus-themes#h:a956dbd3-8fd2-4f5d-8b01-5f881268cf2b>.

> If you want to quickly test colours against each other, you can try an
> Org table (or orgtbl-mode) and use 'modus-themes-contrast' to get the
> contrast ratio.
> 
> Here is a sample:
> 
>     (defalias 'Λ 'modus-themes-contrast)
> 
>     |         |         | #E0E0E0 | #FFFFFF |
>     |---------+---------+---------+---------|
>     | red     | #a60000 |    6.07 |    8.01 |
>     | green   | #005e00 |    6.12 |    8.07 |
>     | yellow  | #813e00 |    6.07 |    8.01 |
>     | blue    | #0031a9 |    7.91 |   10.44 |
>     | magenta | #721045 |    8.48 |   11.20 |
>     | cyan    | #00538b |    6.09 |    8.05 |
>     #+TBLFM: $3='(Λ $2 @1$3);%.2f :: $4='(Λ $2 @1$4);%.2f

This is pretty helpful, thanks.

Thanks for your time and for releasing modus-themes colors in the
public domain.
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> From: takeda <patch@sent.as>
> Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 00:01:09 +0530
>
> This is pretty helpful, thanks.
>
> Thanks for your time and for releasing modus-themes colors in the
> public domain.

You are welcome!  And thanks for taking the time to contribute that
process.

-- 
Protesilaos Stavrou
https://protesilaos.com
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