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crazy idea (Hare scripting?)

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Just a crazy idea here...

If you write an app in Hare, and wanted to be able to embed a scripting language, what language would you embed?

Well... what do you think of the idea of a high-level scripting version of Hare? Dynamically-typed, GC'd, and with a built-in hashmap type. Implemented in Hare, with seamless integration with Hare.

Dynamic typing seems like a good fit with Hare's tagged unions.

I don't have the technical chops to create such a language. Curious to hear your thoughts on the idea though. Would it be a large undertaking, or fairly straightforward?

-- John
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On Fri, 3 Jun 2022, at 01:34, John Gabriele wrote:
> Well... what do you think of the idea of a high-level scripting version 
> of Hare? Dynamically-typed, GC'd, and with a built-in hashmap type. 
> Implemented in Hare, with seamless integration with Hare.

I think this idea, regardless of its usefulness, is quite antithetical to
Hare's values, so it doesn't have much connection to the existing
language or community.

> I don't have the technical chops to create such a language. Curious to 
> hear your thoughts on the idea though. Would it be a large undertaking, 
> or fairly straightforward?

If you had high quality standards for your GC, this would easily take many
months or multiple years. However, I encourage you to work on whatever
you find fun and interesting, and if this is it, wonderful!
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On Thu, Jun 2, 2022, at 8:47 PM, Vlad-Stefan Harbuz wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Jun 2022, at 01:34, John Gabriele wrote:
>> Well... what do you think of the idea of a high-level scripting version 
>> of Hare? Dynamically-typed, GC'd, and with a built-in hashmap type. 
>> Implemented in Hare, with seamless integration with Hare.
>
> I think this idea, regardless of its usefulness, is quite antithetical to
> Hare's values, so it doesn't have much connection to the existing
> language or community.

Oh, certainly antithetical. That would be the whole point --- the other
side of the coin, as it were.

Though, I understand. People who like using low-level Hare generally
like using low-level Hare and not some other scripting language.

>> I don't have the technical chops to create such a language. Curious to 
>> hear your thoughts on the idea though. Would it be a large undertaking, 
>> or fairly straightforward?
>
> If you had high quality standards for your GC, this would easily take many
> months or multiple years.

Oof. Ok. Thanks! Out of my area of expertise.
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On Thu Jun 2, 2022 at 9:08 PM EDT, John Gabriele wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 2, 2022, at 8:47 PM, Vlad-Stefan Harbuz wrote:
> > On Fri, 3 Jun 2022, at 01:34, John Gabriele wrote:
> >> Well... what do you think of the idea of a high-level scripting version 
> >> of Hare? Dynamically-typed, GC'd, and with a built-in hashmap type. 
> >> Implemented in Hare, with seamless integration with Hare.
> >
> > I think this idea, regardless of its usefulness, is quite antithetical to
> > Hare's values, so it doesn't have much connection to the existing
> > language or community.
>
> Oh, certainly antithetical. That would be the whole point --- the other
> side of the coin, as it were.
>
> Though, I understand. People who like using low-level Hare generally
> like using low-level Hare and not some other scripting language.
>
> >> I don't have the technical chops to create such a language. Curious to 
> >> hear your thoughts on the idea though. Would it be a large undertaking, 
> >> or fairly straightforward?
> >
> > If you had high quality standards for your GC, this would easily take many
> > months or multiple years.
>
> Oof. Ok. Thanks! Out of my area of expertise.


Perhaps you would be interested in the work that achaninja has done:

https://acha.ninja/blog/memory-safeish-hare/
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On Thu, Jun 2, 2022, at 9:47 PM, Sebastian LaVine wrote:
>
> Perhaps you would be interested in the work that achaninja has done:
>
> https://acha.ninja/blog/memory-safeish-hare/

Thanks for the link. Note though, I like Hare the way it is! It is a
nice little gem. I was interested in hearing about what folks think
of a high-level counterpart to Hare -- a language distinct from
Hare.

Anyhow, my suspicion is that once you get the hang of Hare,
the attraction to a scripting version probably goes away, as
you're too busy getting work done. :)

-- John
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On Thu Jun 2, 2022 at 10:33 PM EDT, John Gabriele wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 2, 2022, at 9:47 PM, Sebastian LaVine wrote:
> >
> > Perhaps you would be interested in the work that achaninja has done:
> >
> > https://acha.ninja/blog/memory-safeish-hare/
>
> Thanks for the link. Note though, I like Hare the way it is! It is a
> nice little gem. I was interested in hearing about what folks think
> of a high-level counterpart to Hare -- a language distinct from
> Hare.

I think Lua is pretty much built for this purpose, right? I don't have
much experience with it personally, though.
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On Thu, Jun 2, 2022, at 10:54 PM, Sebastian LaVine wrote:
> On Thu Jun 2, 2022 at 10:33 PM EDT, John Gabriele wrote:
>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2022, at 9:47 PM, Sebastian LaVine wrote:
>> >
>> > Perhaps you would be interested in the work that achaninja has done:
>> >
>> > https://acha.ninja/blog/memory-safeish-hare/
>>
>> Thanks for the link. Note though, I like Hare the way it is! It is a
>> nice little gem. I was interested in hearing about what folks think
>> of a high-level counterpart to Hare -- a language distinct from
>> Hare.
>
> I think Lua is pretty much built for this purpose, right? I don't have
> much experience with it personally, though.

I looked at Lua, but could not get used to its multiple return values
(and lack of arrays). Also, it felt like it was not helping me find my
mistakes (like, undefined variables and table keys returned nil,
function arity not checked (and same with multiple return values and
assignment)). Wasn't my cup of tea.

For scripting, I like [Janet](https://janet-lang.org/). Though, I could
imagine that a Hare-like scripting language would be so simple,
familiar, and straightforward, that it would be ridiculously easy
to learn, and eminently practical. And besides, I have the perfect
name for it: Harriet  :)

-- John
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On Fri Jun 3, 2022 at 4:15 AM BST, John Gabriele wrote:
> Though, I could imagine that a Hare-like scripting language would be
> so simple, familiar, and straightforward, that it would be
> ridiculously easy to learn, and eminently practical.

> And besides, I have the perfect name for it: Harriet  :)
>
> -- John

I'm by no means some kind of divine authority, but if I were to make any
language (even one which takes from the innovations of Hare), I would
find it a little obnoxious to borrow the name of another lang's mascot.
It may not be trademarked, but one should be creative, like every other
lang!

=> https://uspto.report/TM/90651626
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>> And besides, I have the perfect name for it: Harriet  :)
>
> I'm by no means some kind of divine authority, but if I were to make any
> language (even one which takes from the innovations of Hare), I would
> find it a little obnoxious to borrow the name of another lang's mascot.

Oh! I didn't know that the logo == mascot, nor
that she had a name. Sorry, maybe I read that
somewhere and forgot!
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