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Sourcehut lists as a blogging mailing-list?

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Hello,

As I’m planning to move my Mailpoet mailing-list to Sourcehut, I’m 
wondering how sourcehut lists work with non-technical person.

Do you have any experience/feedback with non-technical person having to 
subscribe with the "strange-looking" email adress? Any reported issue or 
misunderstanding? As people reading me are mostly non-English speaking, 
I’m wondering if using lists.sr.ht may force them to be confronted with 
English instructions.

I’m also concerned about how emails are displayed in Gmail/smartphones.

I’ve read on postmarketOS bug tracker that html emails were planned to 
be supported on lists.sr.ht and maybe delivering a blog post by mail is 
one of the few cases where html emails make sense. Any thougth on this? 

I will need to learn to craft an email with an html alternative to test 
it out.

Any feedback/experience is welcome.

I’ve detailled a bit more my questions on 
https://ploum.be/2022-10-21-managing-mailing-list.html

-- 
Ploum - Lionel Dricot
Blog: https://www.ploum.net — Livres: https://ploum.net/livres
Gemini : gemini://rawtext.club/~ploum/
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It’s just an email address, hide it behind a link if you’re worried

Also you can make the address look more “normal” if it really bothers or concerns you: https://man.sr.ht/lists.sr.ht/#posting

HTML emails are now supported but it is opt in for the list admin

--
Oliver Leaver-Smith
+44 (0) 7450 217 558
oliver@leaversmith.com
TZ=Europe/London
BD3C 73DF 33FF 729A B4B7 2C0B E7BF 2699 1650 3BFB
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> HTML emails are now supported but it is opt in for the list admin

There seem to have been a misundeerstanding: html email are not (and
will not be) supported.
I merely added the possibility to "support" mixed html/plaintext emails
in the sense that the html part would be discarded to keep only the
plaintext instead of replying with an error to the sender.
But that still means that only pure text emails are sent in sourcehut
mailing lists.

Also note that, though the code has been added, the database migration
still needs to be done to make this possible in existing mailing lists.
Once migration is done (hopefully I'll send the patch during the
week-end), allowing mixed html/plaintext email will become possible
(but, again, only plaintext will make it through).

Best,
Tanguy
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On Fri Oct 21, 2022 at 9:46 AM EDT,  wrote:
> As I’m planning to move my Mailpoet mailing-list to Sourcehut, I’m 
> wondering how sourcehut lists work with non-technical person.
>
> Do you have any experience/feedback with non-technical person having to 
> subscribe with the "strange-looking" email adress? Any reported issue or 
> misunderstanding? As people reading me are mostly non-English speaking, 
> I’m wondering if using lists.sr.ht may force them to be confronted with 
> English instructions.
>
> I’m also concerned about how emails are displayed in Gmail/smartphones.
>
> I’ve read on postmarketOS bug tracker that html emails were planned to 
> be supported on lists.sr.ht and maybe delivering a blog post by mail is 
> one of the few cases where html emails make sense. Any thougth on this? 
>
> I will need to learn to craft an email with an html alternative to test 
> it out.
>
> Any feedback/experience is welcome.

I use sourcehut lists for my blog, and I can say that the lack of HTML
emails is not an issue; I just send an email with a link to the blog
post instead of with the blog post embedded. I also use sourcehut lists
for my nonenglish blog (or, I plan to. I have it set up, though). This,
too, is not an issue because I just have a mailto link to subscribe. For
example, my list is <~u9000/lipu-sin@lists.sr.ht>, so I have a mailto
link of <u.u9000.lipu-sin+subscribe@lists.sr.ht>.

Cheers,
-- 
DJ Chase
They, Them, Theirs
{gemini,https,ipns}://dj-chase.com
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I also use sourcehut lists for my blog. I write the email in markdown,
which is light enough to be read as plain text. A webhook then triggers
and takes the content of the email and turns it into a post on the
server using some homebrewed software.

https://afontaine.dev/blog/new-blog-style

I then set the Reply-To header to be a discussion list, so the main blog
list remains my posts only, but users can reply to the post in a
separate comment area that (should) still all link together in my mail
client.

I also use the custom header X-Blog-Tags to categorize posts on the
server, but before that I used a [tag, tag] format at the beginning of
the subject.

Long term, I want to capture emails from the discussion list to display
them as a comments section, but life is busy.

-- 
Andrew Fontaine
afontaine.dev
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On 22/10/21 02:00, Tanguy Fardet - tanguyfardet at protonmail.com wrote:
>> HTML emails are now supported but it is opt in for the list admin
>
>There seem to have been a misundeerstanding: html email are not (and
>will not be) supported.
>I merely added the possibility to "support" mixed html/plaintext emails
>in the sense that the html part would be discarded to keep only the
>plaintext instead of replying with an error to the sender.
>But that still means that only pure text emails are sent in sourcehut
>mailing lists.

Thanks for the clarification. This means that mail have to be sent 
txt-only (as html versions will be discarded anyway).

I need to test more how to make a test version which is readable on both 
a smartphone and a mutt terminal. Or, like u9000 is suggesting, simply 
send a link to the blog post (but feedbacks from readers tend to tell me 
it’s really better to have the text directly in the email, which makes a 
lot of sense !)
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October 21, 2022 3:00 PM, "Tanguy Fardet" <tanguyfardet@protonmail.com> wrote:

>> HTML emails are now supported but it is opt in for the list admin
> 
> There seem to have been a misundeerstanding: html email are not (and
> will not be) supported.

No misunderstanding, possibly just my brevity causing confusion

> I merely added the possibility to "support" mixed html/plaintext emails
> in the sense that the html part would be discarded to keep only the
> plaintext instead of replying with an error to the sender.

This was my understanding, but what it means is that your average user doesn't need to configure their client for plain text sending as it _should_ send as multipart anyway; accessibility for non-technical appearing to be one of OP's primary concerns

Thanks!

ols
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On 22/10/21 10:16, Andrew Fontaine - andrew at afontaine.ca wrote:
>I also use sourcehut lists for my blog. I write the email in markdown,
>which is light enough to be read as plain text. A webhook then triggers
>and takes the content of the email and turns it into a post on the
>server using some homebrewed software.
>
>https://afontaine.dev/blog/new-blog-style
>
>I then set the Reply-To header to be a discussion list, so the main blog
>list remains my posts only, but users can reply to the post in a
>separate comment area that (should) still all link together in my mail
>client.
>
>I also use the custom header X-Blog-Tags to categorize posts on the
>server, but before that I used a [tag, tag] format at the beginning of
>the subject.
>
>Long term, I want to capture emails from the discussion list to display
>them as a comments section, but life is busy.

That’s very interesting : instead of trying to send a blog post as a 
newsletter, you make a blog out of a newsletter.

I’m going the other way as I like to keep all my blog posts as Gemtext 
files and be able to edit them (mostly to correct mistake). I keep all 
of it in a git repository which, when pulled, convert gemtext to html 
through a post-receive git hook (or, on sourcehut, through build.yml).

But really interesting to read how you did it, thanks for sharing.
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>On 22/10/21 02:00, Tanguy Fardet - tanguyfardet at protonmail.com 
>wrote:
>>>HTML emails are now supported but it is opt in for the list admin
>>
>>There seem to have been a misundeerstanding: html email are not (and
>>will not be) supported.
>>I merely added the possibility to "support" mixed html/plaintext emails
>>in the sense that the html part would be discarded to keep only the
>>plaintext instead of replying with an error to the sender.
>>But that still means that only pure text emails are sent in sourcehut
>>mailing lists.

Any recommendations at which size to "fold" a text email to look good on 
mobile?

Any recommenadtions on how to structure the content with 
sections/subtitles?

Was really interested to read DJ-chase’s post about the subject
gemini://dj-chase.com/documents/pleasant-html-mail.gmi

I’m wondering if there accepted good practices in that regard (looking 
for this on any popular search engine just gives me a truckload of 
results about why you should *not* send text-only emails, mostly because 
you cannot track your audience nor making them click on your latest 
offer)

Ploum
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On Sat Oct 22, 2022 at 8:24 AM EDT, <sourcehut@ploum.eu> wrote:
> Any recommendations at which size to "fold" a text email to look good on 
> mobile?

I don’t think wrapping emails with mobile in mind is a good idea for
multiple reasons:

  •  Mobile clients are less likely to present plain-text emails in a
     fixed-width font than desktop clients — IIRC even Gmail’s web
     interface doesn’t do this by default

  •  Lines which are short enough to look good on mobile will certainly
     be too short for desktop; 66 characters is the accepted ideal line-
     length in typography

  •  Mobile users can turn their phone sideways if they dislike the
     wrapped layout, but desktop users cannot turn their computer
     sideways to make the text not shoved to the left of their screen.

  •  Clients should not wrap plain-text anyway (unless it’s sent with
     format=flowed), so mobile users /should/ also be able to scroll if
     they don’t want to turn their phone.

> I’m wondering if there accepted good practices in that regard (looking 
> for this on any popular search engine just gives me a truckload of 
> results about why you should *not* send text-only emails, mostly because 
> you cannot track your audience nor making them click on your latest 
> offer)

Plain-text emails should be wrapped at 72 characters, but should not
bother with wrapping blockquotes (unless a quote is significantly longer
than 72 characters / line, that it).

> Any recommendations on how to structure the content with 
> sections/subtitles?
>
> Was really interested to read DJ-chase’s post about the subject
> gemini://dj-chase.com/documents/pleasant-html-mail.gmi

I obviously recommend lynx, as mentioned in that post. Notably, though,
lynx can wrap output at a specific column with `-width=<columns>`.
Appropriately, lynx will not wrap links, but it it will inappropriately
wrap preformatted text. There’s also html2text(1)/python3-html2text(1),
which has options to control most of these things if that suits
your fancy.


Cheers,
-- 
DJ Chase
They, Them, Theirs
{gemini,https,ipns}://dj-chase.com
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Quoth sourcehut@ploum.eu:
>Any recommendations at which size to "fold" a text email to look good 
>on mobile?

Use format=flowed.  Fold at a usual width of ~72 characters.  Good 
clients will reflow.

>I’m wondering if there accepted good practices in that regard (looking 
>for this on any popular search engine just gives me a truckload of 
>results about why you should *not* send text-only emails, mostly 
>because you cannot track your audience nor making them click on your 
>latest offer)

Sounds like exactly what you want: You get a bunch of advice on 
what not to do.
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On Sat Oct 22, 2022 at 9:11 AM EDT,  wrote:
> Quoth sourcehut@ploum.eu:
> >Any recommendations at which size to "fold" a text email to look good 
> >on mobile?
>
> Use format=flowed.  Fold at a usual width of ~72 characters.  Good 
> clients will reflow.

That also means, though, that you can’t use indentation for structure,
and that preformatted text will also be wrapped.

Cheers,
-- 
DJ Chase
They, Them, Theirs
{gemini,https,ipns}://dj-chase.com
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Quoth DJ Chase:
>That also means, though, that you can’t use indentation for structure, 
>and that preformatted text will also be wrapped.

You can use preformatted text by not appending blanks to the lines.

Imho, you shouldn’t use indentation for structure of natural-language 
text anyway.  Indeed, you can’t do that very well using f=f.  (You 
could indent text by a single blank.)  I’m not gonna suggest quoting 
for that, either.
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On Sat Oct 22, 2022 at 3:47 PM EDT,  wrote:
> Imho, you shouldn’t use indentation for structure of natural-language 
> text anyway.  Indeed, you can’t do that very well using f=f.  (You 
> could indent text by a single blank.)  I’m not gonna suggest quoting 
> for that, either.

I generally agree with you, but I find that in the specific case of
presenting heading in plain-text, indentation does a better job because
markup isn’t always obvious.

Cheers,
-- 
DJ Chase
They, Them, Theirs
{gemini,https,ipns}://dj-chase.com
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