Hello,
I prefer to write README files in org-mode instead of markdown.
Will you implement org-mode support in the future for sourcehut?
Best regards,
Marcus
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hi@eva.fish writes:
>> Will you implement org-mode support in the future for sourcehut?>> you can use a custom readme[1] to use any format! >> [1] https://man.sr.ht/git.sr.ht/#setting-a-custom-readme
The suggestion to "configure a builds.sr.ht job to compile your README
from another markup format and submit it on each git push" feels more
like a way to discourage users from using .org: I've been discouraged
myself for my sr.ht repositories.
Native README.org support in git.sr.ht would be a great plus IMHO, as
both GitHub and GitLab support rendering README.org files.
--
Bastien Guerry
it's not discouraging org-mode, it's encouraging openness! anyone can use any format they want as long as u can generate an html file with it. also, it has been discussed before and is firmly not happening. if you want a solution, this is it.
you also don't have to use a build hook! if the readme is not constantly changing you can just use the hut tool to update the readme from your personal machine.
hi@eva.fish writes:
> it's not discouraging org-mode, it's encouraging openness!
Defaults matter.
I understand that maintainers are careful not to add features that
they would have to maintain over time with limited resources, and I
can take a "no".
In this case, I still think it is worth insisting: there is a reason
why GitHub, GitLab (and probably others) support README.org, and it is
not just to please a niche of users.
It is because READMEs are so important: a bad one is a disservice to the
project, a good one is the key to attracting users and contributors. It
is not just a stub for links to source code and documentation: it is
really your first encounter with the software, the maintainers, their
purpose, their style.
Being able to express yourself when editing READMEs is important for
free software developers who care about their work.
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Bastien Guerry
On Sun Dec 1, 2024 at 5:46 PM CET, Bastien Guerry wrote:
> The suggestion to "configure a builds.sr.ht job to compile your README> from another markup format and submit it on each git push" feels more> like a way to discourage users from using .org: I've been discouraged> myself for my sr.ht repositories.
You don’t have to do it on every commit, my example
~mcepl/m2crypto does it just for merges to the master branch.
Matěj
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Matěj Cepl <mcepl@cepl.eu> writes:
> You don’t have to do it on every commit, my example> ~mcepl/m2crypto does it just for merges to the master branch.
Thanks for sharing this example.
Still, direct support for more lightweight markup formats for
rendering plain text files on sr.ht would be great.
When you think about it, this is actually the requested feature:
"visual rendering of plain text files when they use one of the most
common lightweight markup languages" - this is *not* about "adding
support for my favourite format".
I would also argue that the most common languages for READMEs are
.md, .org and .rst, and that support for lesser-used formats is not
necessary.
--
Bastien Guerry
On Mon Dec 2, 2024 at 12:01 AM CET, Bastien Guerry wrote:
> I would also argue that the most common languages for READMEs are > .md, .org and .rst, and that support for lesser-used formats is not> necessary.
I would tend to agree, but on the other hand I understand the
Drew’s point, that he doesn’t want to be bothered with all
those supporting libraries and maintaining multiple sets of
documentation tools. Especially, when the solution of these
problems is available.
Comparison with GitHub is unfair, in my opinion, because
Sourcehut is a forge for-hackers-by-hackers, not for an
incompetent newbies and random Joe Doe from a street like GitHub.
Best,
Matěj
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"Drew DeVault" <sir@cmpwn.com> writes:
> We're not going to implement first-class support for org mode. As others> pointed out, this is what the custom HTML readme feature is for.
What about providing examples how to set up custom org/rst->HTML readme?
Matěj Cepl <mcepl@cepl.eu> writes:
> Especially, when the solution of these problems is available.
I don't think this is a good solution.
> Comparison with GitHub is unfair, in my opinion, because> Sourcehut is a forge for-hackers-by-hackers, not for an> incompetent newbies and random Joe Doe from a street like GitHub.
I'd argue that "hackers" also prefer clean direct solutions rather
than clumsy hacks and workarounds :)
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Bastien Guerry
Matěj Cepl <mcepl@cepl.eu> writes:
> Comparison with GitHub is unfair, in my opinion, because> Sourcehut is a forge for-hackers-by-hackers, not for an> incompetent newbies and random Joe Doe from a street like GitHub.
Matěj,
I kindly beg you to count to ten before posting such inflammatory comments, they are really out of
place here.
I mean it, please :-)
We on Sourcehut are not the "kewl boyz" and on GitHub are not all "lamerz" or "n00bs". We are
comparing apples to oranges.
I have *a lot* of complaints about Github but as we see Sourcehut is not perfect as well.
Cheers,
On Mon Dec 2, 2024 at 11:32 PM CET, jman wrote:
> I kindly beg you to count to ten before posting such inflammatory comments, they are really out of > place here.> We on Sourcehut are not the "kewl boyz" and on GitHub are not all "lamerz" or "n00bs". We are > comparing apples to oranges.> I have *a lot* of complaints about Github but as we see Sourcehut is not perfect as well.
I absolutely 100% didn’t meant to say that users of GitHub are
idiots. It is in my opinion question of intended audience. GitHub
is trying to collect as wide user base as possible, it should
be accessible and useful even for people who are newbies,
non-programmers [1], etc. I don’t think Sourcehut is focused on
the same audience and it doesn’t mean that people who don’t know
how to use git-send-email(1) are any less than those who do. They
just use their life for something more fun than deep learning how
to operate computers.
Best,
Matěj
[1] https://github.com/bundestag/gesetze or https://github.com/openenglishbible/Open-English-Bible
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Matěj Cepl <mcepl@cepl.eu> writes:
> I don’t think Sourcehut is focused on the same audience
Agreed, but IMHO the relevant difference here is in the attitude
towards the user base.
I appreciate the fact that SourceHut users can discuss features
directly with the team, and that they can contribute to its value by
maintaining build images, submitting patches, etc., all sorts of
things I don't expect from GitHub.
I also appreciate the fact that SourceHut doesn't pretend to have an
"open governance" with decision-making processes for user involvement:
it's ultimately the good old BDFL model, but on the scale of a nice
service that helps a lot of Free Software.
I would find it useful to allow rendering for more lightweight markup
languages. The BDFL does not. Such is life, I'll just move on.
Bye!
--
Bastien Guerry
Matěj Cepl <mcepl@cepl.eu> writes:
> I don’t think Sourcehut is focused on the same audience and it doesn’t> mean that people who don’t know how to use git-send-email(1) are any> less than those who do.
Thanks for adding more context.
I should have pointed out that defining Github users "incompetent" has a negative connotation which
is just not true: as you point out they may not be competent in computer things but are competent in
many othr fields :-)
Cheers,
On Tue Dec 3, 2024 at 10:05 AM CET, jman wrote:
> I should have pointed out that defining Github users "incompetent" has a negative connotation which > is just not true: as you point out they may not be competent in computer things but are competent in > many othr fields :-)
Yes, that was wrong word. I blame English being my second (or third?) language.
Best,
Matěj
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Дана 24/12/02 01:58PM, Bastien Guerry написа:
> > Comparison with GitHub is unfair, in my opinion, because> > Sourcehut is a forge for-hackers-by-hackers, not for an> > incompetent newbies and random Joe Doe from a street like GitHub.> > I'd argue that "hackers" also prefer clean direct solutions rather> than clumsy hacks and workarounds :)
Exactly. But by applying that logic (which I support wholeheartedly!),
GNU Emacs is a bloated mess and should be avoided whenever possible.
Something like Vim is much better, or if that still feels as too
bloated, plain vi or vis.
Markdown, while arguably not ideal, is better and more widely
known than org-mode. Having Markdown, HTML and plain text supported is
more than enough.
On Wed Dec 4, 2024 at 1:21 PM CET, Страхиња Радић wrote:
> Exactly. But by applying that logic (which I support wholeheartedly!),> GNU Emacs is a bloated mess and should be avoided whenever possible.> Something like Vim is much better, or if that still feels as too> bloated, plain vi or vis.
Did I mention I am writing this in vis? ;)
Matěj
Страхиња Радић <sr@strahinja.org> writes:
> Exactly. But by applying that logic (which I support wholeheartedly!),> GNU Emacs is a bloated mess and should be avoided whenever possible.> Something like Vim is much better, or if that still feels as too> bloated, plain vi or vis.
.org files can be edited outside GNU Emacs:
https://github.com/jceb/vim-orgmodehttps://github.com/vscode-org-mode/vscode-org-modehttps://github.com/ihdavids/orgextended> Markdown, while arguably not ideal, is better and more widely> known than org-mode. Having Markdown, HTML and plain text supported is> more than enough.
My point is not to compare lightweight markup languages. It is to
promote the idea of supporting the rendering of the main lightweight
markup languages: Markdown, reStructuredText and Org.
This would not be useful just for READMEs but for every file using
these lightweight markup languages.
--
Bastien Guerry
Дана 24/12/04 01:57PM, Bastien Guerry написа:
> .org files can be edited outside GNU Emacs:> > https://github.com/jceb/vim-orgmode> https://github.com/vscode-org-mode/vscode-org-mode> https://github.com/ihdavids/orgextended
Yes, but it originated with GNU Emacs, and is usually promoted by those
who use GNU Emacs. The listed projects are "workarounds" and
afterthoughts, rather than something that organically originated from,
and is usually associated with, the community of users of vi-like text
editors.
Bastien Guerry <bzg@bzg.fr> writes:
> This would not be useful just for READMEs but for every file using> these lightweight markup languages.
I think a useful point to make is that Orgmode is not just another markup language to write READMEs,
but a deep and complex "framework" that leverages text files for a lot of use cases, also loved by
people I consider real hackers, enjoying powerful tools.
Not supporting Orgmode excludes apriori a whole class of use cases on Sourcehut some users may be
interested in.
(to be clear: I am not criticizing Sourcehut for not wanting Orgmode)
Cheers,
On Wed Dec 4, 2024 at 1:57 PM CET, Bastien Guerry wrote:
> .org files can be edited outside GNU Emacs:
Perhaps even https://github.com/rgieseke/textadept-orgmode (not tested).
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Joseph Turner <joseph@breatheoutbreathe.in> writes:
> I've added a blog post describing how to automate the process of setting> custom README.html from an Org file:>> https://breatheoutbreathe.in/blog/2024-12-10-sourcehut-org-mode-readme.html
Thanks, it is useful.
I hope that one day the sr.ht maintainers will be open to discussing
more rendering options for text files with lightweight markup syntax.
--
Bastien
Should probably generalize the wiki page a bit to include a list or
table of example repos with the source format.
<tr>
<td><a>~xenrox/custom-readme</a></td>
<td>HTML</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><a>~user/repo</a></td>
<td>org</td>
</tr>
Something like this?
"Drew DeVault" <sir@cmpwn.com> writes:
> Should probably generalize the wiki page a bit to include a list or> table of example repos with the source format.>> <tr>> <td><a>~xenrox/custom-readme</a></td>> <td>HTML</td>> </tr>> <tr>> <td><a>~user/repo</a></td>> <td>org</td>> </tr>>> Something like this?
How about the attached patch?
Thank you!
Joseph