~sircmpwn/sr.ht-discuss

11 7

sr.ht wikis aren't

Colby Russell
Details
Message ID
<d411ffc1-f52f-e76a-cbb2-83e6920fca8e@colbyrussell.com>
DKIM signature
missing
Download raw message
Please don't call them wikis.

I know that sourcehut is shooting for some level of feature party with
e.g. GitHub, but GitHub's wikis aren't wikis, and neither are sr.ht's.
Calling them wikis flies in the face of the very etymology of the word.

The main customer of sourcehut, sr.ht, is already using the man.sr.ht
hostname, so no "wiki" problem there.  I see a few places, most notably
in the footers of markdown pages, referring to "wiki".  So long as these
aren't actually wikis, this should instead refer generically to "pages"
or "docs" or something.

-- 
Colby Russell
Details
Message ID
<C2JOZSA23EHZ.1YW36CVG11N0G@homura>
In-Reply-To
<d411ffc1-f52f-e76a-cbb2-83e6920fca8e@colbyrussell.com> (view parent)
DKIM signature
pass
Download raw message
Would you care to explain what you believe to be the qualifications for
the term "wiki"?
Colby Russell
Details
Message ID
<e316944f-cb68-3507-3683-b8ee2a8deb4d@colbyrussell.com>
In-Reply-To
<C2JOZSA23EHZ.1YW36CVG11N0G@homura> (view parent)
DKIM signature
missing
Download raw message
On 5/6/20 8:48 AM, Drew DeVault wrote:
> Would you care to explain
> what you believe
> to be the qualifications

It sounds already like writing anything will be time wasted, so I won't.

Here are some links instead:

* 
<https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D020171499X#The_Wiki_Way:_Quick_Collaboration_on_the_Web>
* <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wiki#Etymology>

-- 
Colby Russell
Details
Message ID
<d456584e-13a6-fec0-4d50-9878b2a6d192@interia.pl>
In-Reply-To
<e316944f-cb68-3507-3683-b8ee2a8deb4d@colbyrussell.com> (view parent)
DKIM signature
pass
Download raw message
W dniu 06.05.2020 o 16:28, Colby Russell pisze:
> Here are some links instead:
> 
> * <https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D020171499X#The_Wiki_Way:_Quick_Collaboration_on_the_Web>
> * <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wiki#Etymology>
> 

I don't think these links will be particularly helpful,
but I found the following definition of Wiki on Wikipedia:


> A wiki is a hypertext publication collaboratively edited and managed
> by its own audience directly using a web browser.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki

Colby, is this the definition you had in mind?
Details
Message ID
<C2JQ7KP2FM5B.1OYM5JN1K84QJ@homura>
In-Reply-To
<d456584e-13a6-fec0-4d50-9878b2a6d192@interia.pl> (view parent)
DKIM signature
pass
Download raw message
If we're looking for an authoritative source, I'd start here:

https://wiki.c2.com/?WikiWikiWeb

I think the term just boils down to whether or not anyone can edit it.
Such a feature is planned for man.sr.ht, so I think it qualifies, or at
least can be forgiven for being an incomplete alpha-quality project.
Details
Message ID
<1608465.rHqDDNUZAn@clamps>
In-Reply-To
<e316944f-cb68-3507-3683-b8ee2a8deb4d@colbyrussell.com> (view parent)
DKIM signature
pass
Download raw message
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 10:28:18 AM EDT Colby Russell wrote:
> On 5/6/20 8:48 AM, Drew DeVault wrote:
> > Would you care to explain
> > what you believe
> > to be the qualifications
> 
> It sounds already like writing anything will be time wasted, so I won't.
> 
> Here are some links instead:
> 
> *
> <https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D020171499X#The_Wiki_Way:_Quick_Co
> llaboration_on_the_Web> * <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wiki#Etymology>

As someone with no skin in this particular game, that seems like a hostile 
response to an earnest question. I was wondering, myself, why one might think 
"sr.ht wikis aren't".

If you're unwilling to proffer even a minimal explanation of why you make the 
statement in the subject line of your email, it seems like the original 
writing was time wasted, also.

Or it seems like you're a spammer trying to sell a book on amazon that I will 
not be purchasing.

If there's some other explanation, maybe you should offer it.
Details
Message ID
<1648174.ay2nGTBere@clamps>
In-Reply-To
<C2JQ7KP2FM5B.1OYM5JN1K84QJ@homura> (view parent)
DKIM signature
pass
Download raw message
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 10:45:44 AM EDT Drew DeVault wrote:
> Such a feature is planned for man.sr.ht, so I think it qualifies, or at
> least can be forgiven for being an incomplete alpha-quality project.

And isn't editing possible today via git send-email? Even wikipedia has access 
controls... that doesn't seem to pull it into "not a wiki" territory.
Details
Message ID
<912d44ef-48f8-9cd6-5cd7-e039c3d960a7@interia.pl>
In-Reply-To
<1648174.ay2nGTBere@clamps> (view parent)
DKIM signature
pass
Download raw message
W dniu 06.05.2020 o 17:02, Geoff Beier pisze:
> On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 10:45:44 AM EDT Drew DeVault wrote:
>> Such a feature is planned for man.sr.ht, so I think it qualifies, or at
>> least can be forgiven for being an incomplete alpha-quality project.
> 
> And isn't editing possible today via git send-email? Even wikipedia has access 
> controls... that doesn't seem to pull it into "not a wiki" territory.

One could argue that you're not editing it "directly",
as it's not through the website / through the same interface
that you use to read it.
Details
Message ID
<C2JQTAJC41CP.1IO2F51Q8CHJI@aleister>
In-Reply-To
<912d44ef-48f8-9cd6-5cd7-e039c3d960a7@interia.pl> (view parent)
DKIM signature
pass
Download raw message
> One could argue that you're not editing it "directly",
> as it's not through the website / through the same interface
> that you use to read it.

This is my understanding too. I believe part of the point of a 'wiki', back
when the idea was first created was to allow for quick, direct edits to the
page. By that definition, man.sr.ht doesn't meet the definition, but
GitHub's wiki pages do.
Details
Message ID
<2213513.vqM0P4WR3p@clamps>
In-Reply-To
<C2JQTAJC41CP.1IO2F51Q8CHJI@aleister> (view parent)
DKIM signature
pass
Download raw message
On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 11:14:06 AM EDT Noah Pederson wrote:
> This is my understanding too. I believe part of the point of a 'wiki', back
> when the idea was first created was to allow for quick, direct edits to the
> page. By that definition, man.sr.ht doesn't meet the definition, but
> GitHub's wiki pages do.

Interesting! I just understood it as edited by the community, not so much as 
specifying how the editing should occur.

Thanks for clarifying. (And if OP is still reading... why did you link us to 
an amazon book instead of adding a sentence like this, if this is what you had 
in mind?)
j3s
Details
Message ID
<ac51076f-a406-a1fb-b03d-76a9d98cb830@c3f.net>
In-Reply-To
<C2JQ7KP2FM5B.1OYM5JN1K84QJ@homura> (view parent)
DKIM signature
pass
Download raw message
On 5/6/20 9:45 AM, Drew DeVault wrote:
> If we're looking for an authoritative source, I'd start here:
> 
> https://wiki.c2.com/?WikiWikiWeb
> 
> I think the term just boils down to whether or not anyone can edit it.
> Such a feature is planned for man.sr.ht, so I think it qualifies, or at
> least can be forgiven for being an incomplete alpha-quality project.

That's great! It's wiki enough in my eyes.

In fact, I was just speaking to some of my colleagues about man.sr.ht 
the other day, and one of them was confused about why it isn't called 
wiki.sr.ht?

I would be a fan of such a name change, as man.sr.ht may imply that it 
should only be used for man pages, whereas we wind up using it for 
documents of all sorts.
Details
Message ID
<20200506181625.GU24310@SinequixCKO>
In-Reply-To
<C2JQTAJC41CP.1IO2F51Q8CHJI@aleister> (view parent)
DKIM signature
pass
Download raw message
On Wed, May 06, 2020 at 10:14:06AM -0500, Noah Pederson wrote:
> > One could argue that you're not editing it "directly",
> > as it's not through the website / through the same interface
> > that you use to read it.
> 
> This is my understanding too. I believe part of the point of a 'wiki', back
> when the idea was first created was to allow for quick,

This is the definition that I took from it back when wikiwikiweb first
came out.  Not that it was required to be editted on via HTML viewing,
but that it was quick and could be editted quickly by collaborators

>  direct edits to the page

as opposed to "direct edits" whatever that menas.  Even wikipedia
doesn't have "direct edits" you have to click a button and reload the
page, and then edit and submit.

By that definition, Dropbox might be a bit more "direct edit" in that,
given access, anyone could directly edit and save some document and save
it and it would be a "direct edit".  The stipulation being, I think,
quick collaboration.

> By that definition, man.sr.ht doesn't meet the definition, but
> GitHub's wiki pages do.

Github's wiki may be closer to what your picture of this is, though.
Still, I don't use the clumsy "web editor" to edit the wiki pages, and
even they don't maybe don't encourage it so much, but encourage the
indirect Gollum, develop and edit the pages locally, and then push up
workflow.

Or at least cloning the wiki and making changes is, to me, faster and
easier than having to deal with a text area where I lose my tooling for
prose.
Export thread (mbox)